Hello all, <br><br>Hope well. The discussion regarding the nature of the Electron Club has been really interesting and healthy. As a relatively newcomer to the space I have found it a really unique, welcoming and insightful place to be. The mission statement on the website appears open to a range of fields which have a lot of potential for cross-fertilisation. I have found it really useful meeting people who creatively engage with technology for the common good. <br>
<br>On first site it may appear that Plane Stupid is simply engaging with 'environmental activity' which is on the Electron's mission statement on the website. Behind the scenes we help communities set up their own noise monitoring devices to monitor the noise levels of planes, engage in community onine mapping excercises to audit the impacts of the aviation industry and utilise technology which can document state infilitration on civil and peaceful activity. I give these examples I suppose to show that when we diiscuss the purpose of the Electron (as this discussion has illuminated) then we can discover what other people in the community are doing beneath the surface and how a place like Electron can bring unexpected people together. <br>
<br>I do agree that it would be great to discuss further about the use of the space for everyones best use; from the logistical (security, workshop space and computer space) to the more theoretical. Maybe at the next meeting on Monday 25th May at 7pm? <br>
<br>In response to the question about what Plane Stupid may do at the Open Day it has been suggested to facilitate a workshop on how to use technology for environmental and social good (i.e. online community mapping, key media messaging through the website, participatory technological activities which involve marginalised members of the community in being able to take action on their concerns). I guess the Open Day can be a fine opportunity to see what each other does and makes in person and the regular meetings can be used to continue this healthy discussion.<br>
<br>All the best and have a good weekend,<br><br>dan<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/5/14 Andrew Back <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andy@smokebelch.org">andy@smokebelch.org</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
As someone who has more recently been, and will for the foreseeable continue<br>
to be an absentee, my option may not count for much! However...<br>
<br>
The Electron Club has over the years played host to events and talks from<br>
numerous groups which may be considered political. The original intention<br>
was for it to be a place where, and here is the important part, *anyone with<br>
an interest in - typically geeky stuff - involving the moving for electrons<br>
could come along and join in*. This most definitely includes the<br>
technologically disenfranchised, which will of course include those who<br>
might be perceived as, or plainly be political. With regards priority there<br>
has been an understanding that those whose link to 'electron activities' is<br>
fairly tenuous can use the space, but they may get bumped if a more fitting<br>
need comes along. Better to have the space in use than the CCA take it back<br>
for it sitting empty for large periods of time...<br>
<br>
In my opinion to have a diverse mix of people and groups is a very good<br>
thing, and we should be striving for a group and venue that embodies many of<br>
the positive principles of open source and the Internet. Think of the common<br>
shared goals in open source where people come together to 'scratch an<br>
(technological, not political!) itch', and how possibly the Internet's key<br>
to success, 'net neutrality', might be mapped onto the club space. There is<br>
a good reason that the EC does not have a lengthy set of rules, and in my<br>
mind if it did it would be like turning the Internet into Prestel (you can<br>
only carry this data, and only these people can connect etc).<br>
<br>
I'm more worried by some of the concerns voiced that there is a bigger<br>
threat from a more recent conservatism! Remember also that the CCA is an<br>
arts venue and not church hall. I think people need to be prepared to accept<br>
that some works, ideas, perspectives etc might be, to them at least,<br>
challenging.<br>
<br>
Will all that said I would worry if the club supports activities by any<br>
group that is well known for harassing the general public. And whilst I'm<br>
totally in support of initiatives to foster learning etc amongst groups<br>
which tend to be disenfranchised, I would have serious concerns if their<br>
policy is clearly exclusive. I just don't see reason for any such group at<br>
the EC to operate this way, and if it must would suggest it has picked the<br>
wrong venue. It's unlikely I would want to join a group of German<br>
programmers running Visual Basic evenings, but if I so desire I should not<br>
be precluded from doing so!<br>
<br>
As has been said already it is a fine line we tread. For example I would<br>
consider discussing some of the political implications of technology on the<br>
list as being OK, but political campaigning not OK. Just as advertising my<br>
soldering services is not cool, but discussing soldering techniques is fine.<br>
<br>
With regards "those in charge", there is nobody as such, and for many very<br>
good reasons. Of course the space and CCA etc needs to be respected and use<br>
appropriate, but there is no notion of EC management. Similarly if there is<br>
a problem with the website there is no tech support per se. If you find a<br>
problem be part of the solution.<br>
<br>
Lastly, it may be time to revisit how security of the space is managed. But<br>
I would also suggest that if seemingly random people drop in on a planned<br>
event they ought really to be welcomed, and whilst checking they are an EC<br>
member it explained to them that they can choose to join the group if<br>
interested, and if not they must quietly work around the group if this is<br>
acceptable, e.g. would not be unduly disruptive or unsafe (soldering etc).<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
PS. Gordon, I think "teenage Red Clydesiders" was unnecessarily inflammatory,<br>
and I think it would be a terrible loss were you to cease to participate, as<br>
I know you have a ton electronics, radio and computing etc experience to<br>
contribute.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
> Looking at the program for the planned open day, and the web calendar, I<br>
> can see a lot of political activity which doesn't seem to have anything<br>
> to do with open-source software, hardware hacking, amateur radio, video<br>
> editing or any of the other stated aims of the club.<br>
><br>
> The calendar lists meeting of Industrial Workers of the World and<br>
> Friends of the Earth which are purely political groups. The Open Day<br>
> timetable included a presentation by Plane Stupid, who harass and bully<br>
> holidaymakers travelling by air, and some of whose members have been<br>
> convicted as a result.<br>
><br>
> Worse still, the Digital Desparados group, who operate an openly stated<br>
> policy of racial discrimination, have been able to use the Electron<br>
> Club's facilities. In their own words:<br>
><br>
> "A: This course is for young women of colour aged 16 ??? 30.......By women<br>
> of colour we mean all non white women, for example south asian, mixed,<br>
> first nations, black, south pacific islander, latina, roma, asian etc.<br>
> etc."<br>
><br>
> This plays into the hands of the BNP, who exploit this sort of<br>
> discrimination for their own political gain. Surely all Electron Club<br>
> activities should be open to all, regardless of race, colour or gender<br>
> (or indeed disability or sexual orientation)?<br>
><br>
> Groups and activities such as Green Map, Fablabs, Maker Fair and SOLDER<br>
> are entirely appropriate and in keeping with the EC's aims. However I<br>
> find<br>
> all this political activity and discrimination what should be a<br>
> basically non-political organisation offputting. To my mind the EC would<br>
> be far more successful and attractive to new members it was<br>
> non-political and equally accessible to<br>
> all.<br>
><br>
> How do others feel?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Jim<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> members mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:members@electronclub.org">members@electronclub.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.electronclub.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/members" target="_blank">http://lists.electronclub.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/members</a><br>
><br>
> Instructions for changing your mailing list settings:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.electronclub.org/emailhowto.html" target="_blank">http://lists.electronclub.org/emailhowto.html</a><br>
<br>
</div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
Andrew Back<br>
<a href="mailto:a@smokebelch.org">a@smokebelch.org</a><br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
members mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:members@electronclub.org">members@electronclub.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.electronclub.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/members" target="_blank">http://lists.electronclub.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/members</a><br>
<br>
Instructions for changing your mailing list settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.electronclub.org/emailhowto.html" target="_blank">http://lists.electronclub.org/emailhowto.html</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot <br>of scum on top." Edward Abbey<br><br>A movement for empowerment and community self-determination concerning unsustainable aviation expansion and runaway climate change<br>
Website:<a href="http://www.planespeaking.org.uk">www.planespeaking.org.uk</a><br>Email: <a href="mailto:planespeaking-subscribe@lists.riseup.net">planespeaking-subscribe@lists.riseup.net</a><br><br>Plane Stupid is a network of groups taking action against airport expansion and aviation's climate impact.<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.planestupid.com">www.planestupid.com</a><br>Email: <a href="mailto:planestupidscotland-subscribe@lists.riseup.net">planestupidscotland-subscribe@lists.riseup.net</a><br><br><br>