it's the <span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: rgb(255, 204, 102);">typesetting </span>that<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;"> killed </span>me tbh - <b>the</b> <i>only</i> <font class="Apple-style-span" face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif">font</font> missing was<font class="Apple-style-span" face="'comic sans ms', sans-serif"> <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF6600">Comic Sans</font> </font>:)<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 30 November 2010 15:46, Ben Dembroski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ben@dembroski.net">ben@dembroski.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Howabouts lengthy and coherent?<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 15:38 +0000, Thomas Coles wrote:<br>
> you mean "pretentious" and "lengthy" rather than eloquent or coherent<br>
> (Literature degree raises its ugly head)<br>
> ;)<br>
><br>
> On 30 November 2010 15:36, Ben Dembroski <<a href="mailto:ben@dembroski.net">ben@dembroski.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Yup.<br>
><br>
> A much more eloquent and coherent way of saying:<br>
><br>
> > IMHO, politics enter the equation when the tech is<br>
> used,<br>
> > consumed or referenced within the wider context of<br>
> human<br>
> > interactions<br>
> > and power relationships.<br>
><br>
><br>
> :)<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 15:12 +0000, Thomas Coles wrote:<br>
> > In my opinion:<br>
> ><br>
> > Technologies are tools designed to manipulate our<br>
> environments, they<br>
> > change one thing into another thing.<br>
> ><br>
> > The end for which they are designed, when political, makes<br>
> the tool<br>
> > political. A microchip is a tool to process information more<br>
> quickly -<br>
> > it usurps human minds and human abilities. When we have<br>
> reached a<br>
> > stage where we can no longer write or design computer<br>
> (machine) code<br>
> > directly, when we have programming 'languages', we have<br>
> reached a<br>
> > stage where the vocabulary is more important than the tool.<br>
> The very<br>
> > idea of repetition, of loops, of unending sequences, of the<br>
> continual<br>
> > increase in complexity of knowledge and possibility, the<br>
> computers'<br>
> > cold equivalence of data types.<br>
> ><br>
> > For me all these things are political, they mediate our<br>
> understanding<br>
> > of the world and our understanding of each other. The fact<br>
> that we<br>
> > have the luxury of these technologies, and others don't<br>
> (that we have<br>
> > drones that can kill-at-distance with no risk) is political.<br>
> Can we<br>
> > have iPods and Macs without the suicides at Foxcom?<br>
> Computers are<br>
> > going to become more expensive due to Chinese embargos on<br>
> rare-earth<br>
> > metals. In the end these tools do not exist in a vacuum,<br>
> someone made<br>
> > them, someone designed them. If we use the Internet without<br>
> > remembering that it is a cold-war outgrowth, don't we risk<br>
> buying into<br>
> > ideas we might not be aware of?<br>
> ><br>
> > The politics is contextual of course, but not only this, the<br>
> types of<br>
> > tools available emerge from needs and ideas not necessarily<br>
> our own.<br>
> > When Microsoft releases Genuine Advantage, or refuses to<br>
> allow DVDs to<br>
> > play on their software due to copyright, these things are no<br>
> longer<br>
> > tools, but also have inbuilt promotion of certain<br>
> ideologies.<br>
> ><br>
> > Tom<br>
> ><br>
> > On 30 November 2010 14:57, Ben Dembroski <<a href="mailto:ben@dembroski.net">ben@dembroski.net</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > The can be, but it certainly resides on a sliding<br>
> scale with a<br>
> > huge<br>
> > range.<br>
> ><br>
> > The use of Twitter by Iranian protesters is more<br>
> political<br>
> > than me<br>
> > deciding to use an Arduino over a Basic Stamp to<br>
> automate the<br>
> > watering<br>
> > of my house plants. There's nothing inherently<br>
> political<br>
> > about<br>
> > technology. IMHO, politics enter the equation when<br>
> the tech<br>
> > is used,<br>
> > consumed or referenced within the wider context of<br>
> human<br>
> > interactions<br>
> > and power relationships.<br>
> ><br>
> > I would hope that any of these topics would equally<br>
> welcome on<br>
> > this<br>
> > list.<br>
> ><br>
> > Equally important is the distinction that not<br>
> everything<br>
> > "political" has<br>
> > a significant element of "technology" to it.<br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Ben<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 11:01 +0000, M.Hersh wrote:<br>
> > > Hi,<br>
> > > I would also point out that technology itself and<br>
> its uses<br>
> > are political.<br>
> > > Marion<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>