<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">verbose?<br>__________________<br>http://firebrandboy.org<br>
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http://firebrandboy.bandcamp.com<br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 30/11/10, Thomas Coles <i><tomcoles@gmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Thomas Coles <tomcoles@gmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [ELECTRON] GLASGOW STUDENTS AGAINST CUTS: Monday 29th November: New Glasgow-wide day of education/planning against cuts and for resistance<br>To: "Discussion list for the Electron Club" <members@electronclub.org><br>Date: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010, 15:38<br><br><div id="yiv1843885648">you mean "pretentious" and "lengthy" rather than eloquent or coherent (Literature degree raises its ugly head)<br>;)<br><br><div class="yiv1843885648gmail_quote">On 30 November 2010 15:36, Ben Dembroski <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ben@dembroski.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=ben@dembroski.net">ben@dembroski.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv1843885648gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Yup.<br>
<br>
A much more eloquent and coherent way of saying:<br>
<div class="yiv1843885648im"><br>
> IMHO, politics enter the equation when the tech is used,<br>
> consumed or referenced within the wider context of human<br>
> interactions<br>
> and power relationships.<br>
<br>
</div>:)<br>
<div><div></div><div class="yiv1843885648h5"><br>
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 15:12 +0000, Thomas Coles wrote:<br>
> In my opinion:<br>
><br>
> Technologies are tools designed to manipulate our environments, they<br>
> change one thing into another thing.<br>
><br>
> The end for which they are designed, when political, makes the tool<br>
> political. A microchip is a tool to process information more quickly -<br>
> it usurps human minds and human abilities. When we have reached a<br>
> stage where we can no longer write or design computer (machine) code<br>
> directly, when we have programming 'languages', we have reached a<br>
> stage where the vocabulary is more important than the tool. The very<br>
> idea of repetition, of loops, of unending sequences, of the continual<br>
> increase in complexity of knowledge and possibility, the computers'<br>
> cold equivalence of data types.<br>
><br>
> For me all these things are political, they mediate our understanding<br>
> of the world and our understanding of each other. The fact that we<br>
> have the luxury of these technologies, and others don't (that we have<br>
> drones that can kill-at-distance with no risk) is political. Can we<br>
> have iPods and Macs without the suicides at Foxcom? Computers are<br>
> going to become more expensive due to Chinese embargos on rare-earth<br>
> metals. In the end these tools do not exist in a vacuum, someone made<br>
> them, someone designed them. If we use the Internet without<br>
> remembering that it is a cold-war outgrowth, don't we risk buying into<br>
> ideas we might not be aware of?<br>
><br>
> The politics is contextual of course, but not only this, the types of<br>
> tools available emerge from needs and ideas not necessarily our own.<br>
> When Microsoft releases Genuine Advantage, or refuses to allow DVDs to<br>
> play on their software due to copyright, these things are no longer<br>
> tools, but also have inbuilt promotion of certain ideologies.<br>
><br>
> Tom<br>
><br>
> On 30 November 2010 14:57, Ben Dembroski <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ben@dembroski.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=ben@dembroski.net">ben@dembroski.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> The can be, but it certainly resides on a sliding scale with a<br>
> huge<br>
> range.<br>
><br>
> The use of Twitter by Iranian protesters is more political<br>
> than me<br>
> deciding to use an Arduino over a Basic Stamp to automate the<br>
> watering<br>
> of my house plants. There's nothing inherently political<br>
> about<br>
> technology. IMHO, politics enter the equation when the tech<br>
> is used,<br>
> consumed or referenced within the wider context of human<br>
> interactions<br>
> and power relationships.<br>
><br>
> I would hope that any of these topics would equally welcome on<br>
> this<br>
> list.<br>
><br>
> Equally important is the distinction that not everything<br>
> "political" has<br>
> a significant element of "technology" to it.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Ben<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 11:01 +0000, M.Hersh wrote:<br>
> > Hi,<br>
> > I would also point out that technology itself and its uses<br>
> are political.<br>
> > Marion<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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